i mean biden obama as a team at this point. but i think that the president, is just going to forget the first debate and be ready in the second one to make his case. and to engage. he wasn't ingauged. if you turn down the sound on wednesday night and just watch those two people, he is did not look happy to be there. and mitt romney did. >> what about the vice president, are the expectations now raised, as mark says. >> i think so. >> in part there is a little more pressure on joe biden because as mark said he has to do well. and hyperactive joe biden is a high risk proposition. it could turn out well and i happen to think he's pretty good debater. de well, i thought against sarah palin. de well when he ran for president. he's an eloquent guy who in the big debates has always been a very controlled figure. but paul ryan has what mitt romney had, which is the ability to real off number after number. and again i'm struck by the fact that you can get wonky this year. people somehow seem to want that. and ryan certainly has that cap